Chapter 45: What follows in Shadow

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Chapter 45: What follows in Shadow

Post  The_Dark_1 on Sun Mar 01, 2009 6:43 pm

In looking over this chapter again I notices a striking resemblance to a scene in LoTR: Fellowship. When they are camping on the ways Lan senses a presence following them. This is obviously Mr. Fain. This reminded me of the scene in fellowship where they make camp in the mines and Gollum is following them. This fits perfectly since I have always thought Fain represents the gollum character in the book. Much in the same way Moraine is like Gandolf, and Lan is Aragorn.

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Re: Chapter 45: What follows in Shadow

Post  Eric Gaidin on Sun Mar 01, 2009 9:05 pm

I thought of this exact connection reading this chapter this afternoon. However, I didn't think it was Fain--interesting inference. I was thinking it was a Trolloc, being the party found the Trollocs frozen in fear at the foot of one of the bridges. However, Lan can't figure out what this creature is by feel, and he certainly can identify a Trolloc by feel, as we saw earlier in this book. I'd have to agree with you Ry, it was probably Fain. Wait a minute, do you think Fain has gained some power through a survived meeting with the Black Wind? Now THAT'S interesting to think about.
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Its possible

Post  The_Dark_1 on Sun Mar 01, 2009 9:45 pm

It is possible he picked something up from the black wind. However I think it has been made pretty clear that he got whatever powers he has from his encounter with Moridin at Shadar Logoth. (please excuse spelling there) This is why he hates the Dark One so much. Moridin HATED the dark one and fought him to the last by very controversial means. This is not to say that it wouldn't be possible for Fain to have picked something up from Machin Shin. He could be like a sponge just absorbing from all different sources.

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Re: Chapter 45: What follows in Shadow

Post  Eric Gaidin on Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:38 am

I believe you mean Mordeth from Shadar Logath. I didn't realize that that had been established already. Fain was in Shadar Logath?
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I did mean Mordeth

Post  The_Dark_1 on Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:17 pm

Maybe it isn't officially established and I just had it in my head that is what happened. He seems to take on some of the traits of Mordeth after the group stops in Shadar Logoth. It is my understanding that he has been following the boys. So it would stand to reason that he encountered Mordeth and helped him and now Mordeth is inhabiting Padin Fain. When Moraine and Lan explain the story of Shadar Logoth they say that is what can happen. It is why they ask the boys if they saw or helped anyone, took anything from him. Thats how I always saw it. It makes sense since he started as a Darkfriend and now hates the dark one. He also has mysterious powers.

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Re: Chapter 45: What follows in Shadow

Post  Eric Gaidin on Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:06 pm

You're a friggin' genius. I believe you solved it old boy! That all makes perfect sense Ryan.
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Re: Chapter 45: What follows in Shadow

Post  kimwhite624 on Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:04 pm

Going back to the origninal post. Great correlation between Padan Fain and Gollem. Two characters I hate! I found this all very intersting. Thanks Ryan!

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Padin Fain/Gollum

Post  The_Dark_1 on Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:38 pm

Well thanks everybody. Glad I could help you guys out/give you a new perspective on this creep that is Padin Fain. affraid

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New light to shine on this thread...Fain's past

Post  Eric Gaidin on Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:58 pm

Well, speak of the devil....(by the way, Jordan uses this cliche's original meaning in his series. Naming the Dark One brings about the attention of the named. This is old Christian myth folks. Name Satan and you bring Satan's attention on you. This is also physically embodied in Tolkien's Lord of the Rings through the Eye of Sauron. The Eye of Sauron is searching for the ring; the ring brings attention to the wearer. This is shown extremely well in the movie--as soon as someone puts the ring on, the Eye swings in the direction of the wearer. Same concept.)

Chapter 48 gives us Padan Fain's story in much more detail than I had originally remembered. Wait, cue the emoticon confused

Here's some summary and analysis. Moiraine (pronounced with a "mwah" for the first syllable by the way, according to the glossary; not "more," the way we've been saying it) says of Fain, "There is something worse to him than Darkfriend" and he "has been a Darkfriend for more than forty years" (637-638). He brought the Trollocs to Emond's Field. He has also been hunting the three boys for the past three years (638).

With all that Fain told Moiraine, he did not tell her everything. "I believe he managed to hold back something, something important..." (638). Remember this quote once AMoL is published because I'm sure this chunk will be revealed.

Fain was met by a Halfman in Murandy three years before and was taken north to Shayol Ghul. "'Fain did not like what was done to him at Shayol Ghul'" (639). Moiraine's insistence that Fain remember what was done to him in the Blight "almost killed him" (639). "Fain said he has been made into the Dark One's hound...first changing him so he could carry out that hunt. It is the things done to bring about those changes that Fain fears to remember; he hates his master for them as much as he fears him'" (639). It's obvious then that Fain is representative of the Gollum character from Lord of the Rings. However, Gollum's transformation came about with time; Fain's transformation seems to have been imposed much more quickly. This would account for Fain's shattered psyche--he could only take so much of the transformation before he began to break down. Whatever evil infusion he received broke his spirit as well.

Then, Fain makes another trip to Shayol Ghul, leaves, meets the Dark One in a dream, and "performed rites that would strike you deaf to hear half of them, binding himself even more tightly to the Dark One" (640). How can he be bound more tightly than he already was? He was the Dark One's hound, as shown above. So the question becomes, if he was the Dark One's personal hound, what is he now?

Finally, Fain DID follow them in the Ways, as confirmed by Moiraine. She also states that the Black Wind caught him but "no sooner did the Wind envelope Fain than it fled" (642). Excuse me? The Black Wind fled? The same Wind that leaves men either stark raving mad or consumes their flesh? Jesus, what IS Fain?

Concerning the Shadar Logoth incident, Moiraine states specifically in Shadar Logoth "'many Trollocs were slain, consumed by Mashadar and other things, including the Trolloc that held Fain's leash'" (641). Fain, therefore, was not directly influenced by Mashadar or Mordeth as far as we know. He was stricken with intense fear but seemingly nothing beyond that.

Overall, it appears Fain has been transfigured by the Dark One directly. This is more surprising and even molre frightful than Mordeth. Mordeth is an evil that cannot be battled directly, but is contained--contained within Shadar Logoth. The Dark One is the epitome of evil power, and this personification of pure evil is the direct cause of Fain's power and madness.

Fain's character just got even more interesting. I cannot wait to see what the missing part of his story is.
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Fain and Mordeth

Post  The_Dark_1 on Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:21 pm

I think the part he is leaving out is his run in with Mordeth. Obviously I don't have proof of this. What I am going on is when the boys returned to the camp after their run in with Mordeth. Moraine told them that Mordeth is trapped there unless he can get someone to carry something for him out of the city. Then he can inhabit their body. This is why he tried to get the boys to help him carry out the treasure. I am very interested to see what his story is when the events of MoL play out.

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****SPOILER - DON'T READ IF YOU HAVEN'T READ BOOK 9****

Post  Eric Gaidin on Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:29 pm

Good call, Mordeth can escape. You're absolutely right. Having read the end of Winter's Heart this makes it even more amazing. Highlight the text below if you've already read book 9.

Rand completely destroys Shadar Logoth when he cleanses the taint at the end of 9. Sucker's gone. So, what Ryan says is even more interesting. If Fain has become Mordeth, or is being controlled by Mordeth, then the evil that even Fades and Trollocs hate is out and about. Can you imagine this? Shadar Logoth doesn't even exist to contain that malice. Who knows how far that evil could spread? We should look into Aridhol/Shadar Logoth's history a bit more. I'm trying to remember where in book 1 Moiraine tells the boys the history. It must have been just before they entered the city. I love this prediction Ryan.
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The history of Aridhol

Post  The_Dark_1 on Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:46 pm

Moraine tells the party the history of Aridhol, Shadar Logoth, Mordeth, and Mashadar in Chapter 19: Shadows Waiting

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Re: Chapter 45: What follows in Shadow

Post  Eric Gaidin on Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:02 am

Any predictions about what could be unleashed if Fain in fact IS possesed by Mordeth?
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Re: Chapter 45: What follows in Shadow

Post  Peter on Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:49 pm

For some reason, I was under the same impression that Ryan was, that Fain was now at least partly Mordeth. After rereading the series this summer, I'm pretty sure that it did come up somewhere in one of the later books that Mordeth had possessed Fain, and he was now fighting an identity crisis. Either it came up in the book, which im pretty sure it did, or i read Ryan's mind.

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Re: Chapter 45: What follows in Shadow

Post  Eric Gaidin on Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:47 am

Moiraine states unequivocally in Ch. 49 of The Great Hunt that Fain has run into Mordeth and now he's something far worse. He hasn't been around much in the last couple of books. I wonder what that shady creature has been up to?
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